Re: [Harp-L] re: groove

["Bob Maglinte" <bbqbob917@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Howard Chandler" <chandler@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <rainbowjimmy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: <harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 12:08 PM
Subject: Re: [Harp-L] re: groove


> I have to say that trying to explain something like “groove” leaves me
> feeling really inarticulate, but here goes. My dos centavos and YMMV etc.
>
> Groove is not exclusive to blues but (as Barbeque Bob points out) can be
> found in lots of musical styles. You find it in lots of Latin and
> Caribbean music as well. Styles like Reggae, salsa, cumbia, cha-cha,
> etc. It's more of a "feel" than anything else. I’ve seen some drum
> notation that attempts to explain the basic beat of each of these styles
> but you can only get so close. Part of what makes the groove is that
> there can be several “voices” (drums, bass, guitar, claves etc) that
> make up the beat. Every part has a precise window or pocket that makes
> up the synchronized whole. Kind of like the sound of a Swiss watch (the
> old fashioned kind with gears and cogs). There’s only so much that the
> notation can convey about how it’s supposed to sound. The rest is
> “feel”, and must become part of the sensibility of the players. Just
> like in blues and some other musical forms, microtonal differences can
> make or break the feel, it’s the same with rhythm, and micro-beats can
> make or break a groove. The main thing is that the whole band must feel
> the groove, and play, as they say, in the pocket. Like Bob say’s, if
> you’re playing lead you can’t fight the groove. The groove is your
> friend. Playing the notes on the page without paying homage to the
> groove will always sound like crap.
>
>
> Howard Chandler,
>
> Mandeville, LA

Hi Howard,
This is a very good observation here and it's all basically the very subtle
nuances that make the HUGE difference, paying attention to those things that
the average music listener would NOT pay much attention to are the very
things a musician HAS to do in order to make sure what they're playing
PROPERLY fits with what's going on around them. Let's say we have, as an
example, three different musicians playing a 12 bar blues. One is a country
player, one is a rocker, and one is the traditional blues player. If you go
by a broad definiton of blues, based on just the progression alone, it's
blues, BUT, the difference in the feel is going to be HUGE. Why? Look at
their playing habits within the confines of the groove they normally play.
The country player is going to playing on top or slightly ahead of the beat,
and play "smaller" notes (or actually less legato with more seperation). The
rocker is going to play much further AHEAD of the beat, giving an illusion
of playing really fast and rushed. The traditional blues player is going to
play it BEHIND the beat, giving it a slower, relaxed feel with "bigger"
notes (played more legato and less seperated). All three have equally good
time, but THE FEEL IS GOING TO BE DIFFERENT!!! Why? By the way they play the
groove, for a Rocker, this same progression still SOUNDS Rock, as for a
Country player, this progression still SOUNDS Country, and you can figure it
out from there.

I definitely have to agree that notation, and also in addition, tabs are too
often woefully inadequate for conveying feel. The systems as we presently
know it were setup for Western musics mainly eminating out of Europe, which
at the time it was devised, really didn't have any of these things, and most
likely this never occured to them. Music in other cultures, like India for
example, with usage of sitars, uses micrtones in a way Western musics have
almost never used and the notation used in Western musics is basically
inadequate for that purpose.

It's MUCH easier to teach people notes to play, but FEEL and GROOVE, is a
lot different, and too often many music schools, including many very well
known ones, really fall short in this area. Too often, the popular notion
that if you can play Jazz or Classical, you can play anything, which ideally
because of their complexities, SHOULD be true, but there are many times
where that isn't, and it is NOT saying they're bad musicians, which would be
the quick, knee jerk reaction, but the thing of learning feel and groove is
just an entirely different set of skills. Finding TRULY versatile musicians
that have an understanding of groove and feel so that whatever genre they're
in, having whatever they play sound like they BELONG within the context of
what's going on without question, is much more difficult, and even those
versatile types are always going to be better at certain things than others.

Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
MP3's: http://music.mp3lizard.com/barbequebob/