[Harp-L] intonation and such




Winslow wrote:


"The one part of this I disagree with is the part about not exposing
the overblow."

Funny, I thought that was the best part. Part of playing any musical instrument is to emphasize strengths and minimize weaknesses. Choosing very carefully when you play something (bend, overblow, tongue-slap, etc...) is a key way of doing just this.

"It's like admitting to weak overblow technique, and much of what is
played and recorded using overblows betrays that weakness."

No, it's admitting that an overblow isn't a natural note. That it has a different tone and phrasing than the natural notes of a diatonic harmonica and thus you have to choose when and how to use it in a song. This is the same for bends. Both have a different tonality than natural notes and thus the need to figure out when and when not to use them. It's really no different than knowing when to use a "T" or "K" articulation to start the note or knowing when and when not to use vibrato.

"Fifth may be a better overall position than third for a particular
tune, but if it's because third exposes the overblow, I say go for
third and get your overblows to the point where you can sustain them
with full tone, in tune, and bend them up and down at will."

While the tone may be full, it will still sound different than a natural note. Same with a bend. It's a question of when to use it and when not--when will that tone fit and when won't it.

"Only then will you have proper command of the technique. In fact,
several of the players named below do have that command, which makes
the advice a little puzzling."

They can play with overblows quite well. But they still can't make them seamless. I've not yet heard anyone do that. I've also not yet heard anyone do that with bends either. The idea that somehow eventually someone will practice enough and get good enough technique to make the physical difference in the behavior of the reed between natural and bent and overblown notes simply nonexistent just doesn't make any sense to me. Given that, learning when and when not to use these techniques is some of the best advice I've ever heard.

Iceman:

"I have all my students linger longer on their intonation problem notes. It starts with holding 4 hole inhale bend as a long tone. If it is used in a melodic line, I'll have them play that 'problem' note longer in the line until they stop shying away from it. It's just another note - just because you need a slightly different technique to play it is no reason to be afraid of it."

No, but it's every reason to listen to it and figure out when it can and can't be used for best effect and musical results. An overblow is not just a natural note made in a different manner. The reed is doing something different, that's not just imagination and neither hard work nor concerted thought will make that little fact go away.

"Same goes for OB in my more advanced students. Be proud of it. If it doesn't sound like you want it to, you have to expose it to the air more to take care of the irregularities inherent. Adjustments are made, subtleties are discovered and a more micro sense of pitch and tone develops."

"Expose it to more air"? It depends on what you want for the song in question. Sometimes a created note (bends or overblows) in the right place is perfect. But in the wrong place the inherently different nature of their timbre, phrasing and the pitch-variable part (which is always there--even with good intonation, the pitch is always a bit slippery just by definition) can and will make the note stick out like a sore thumb. Think of the "Ode to Joy" challenge. Playing that piece with the bend in second position (the oft used 3draw whole- step bend) sounds nasty. Unlistenible really. Knowing not to do that (by playing in first position or on a Melody Maker if you want 2nd) is key to getting a musical result which won't scare small children and make dogs howl in a bad way.

Chris M writes:
"Let me explain a little more. I was speaking with Mr Anderson about playing How Insensitive. He plays it on a Bb harp and starts the song in the middle octave where he needs to use OBs and the 7OD to play the melody. I told him in a song like that it would be better to not use OBs unless you have to because they are weak notes compared to other available notes. Although most if not all Jobim tunes use all 12 tones in the course of a tune there are better positions that can be played to make the melody smoother especially if one does not have full facility over the OBs. I use a C harp in 3rd for this tune."


I think this may be the best thing I've ever read from Chris. I don't agree with his characterization of overblows as "weak" in tone and the "least expressive notes" but if I'm reading his general point it's that you have to use overblows quite judiciously if you don't want them to stand out and if you want to have a smoother sound. I'd say the same for bends. And, I'd note the "ifs" in the previous sentence: smooth, even and such is not always what is needed for a given song. But, that's the point: it's to match the instrument to the song and vice-versa. If you're playing "The Girl from Ipanema" and the timbre and phrasing is all over the map, it probably will sound horrible. If you're playing thrash-metal it might be perfect to have the timbre popping in unusual places and the phrasing uneven. As always, it's about context.

This is Winslow again and then George's response:

"">I say go for third and get your overblows to
>the point where you can sustain them with full
>tone, in tune, and bend them up and down at will."

"Great advice, but a lot of work. If you succeed, you will be only the third person to do so (Howard and Chris are the other two). But the goal is the correct one if you're going to play overblows."


I'm not sure what the goal is: to be able to play them well? That's not just Howard and Chris. I guess it depends on what "full tone" means. If it means that they are unnoticeable from natural or bent notes in tone, then neither Chris nor Howard has gotten close. That's not a diss against either, but rather just noting that it's not like there is an even-ness and same-ness of tone between bends and natural notes either. All three sound different. Many people can use all three quite well. If the goal is to use them interchangeably, then it's inherently false: they aren't the same and can't be used the same. This is no different than in fretted instruments: fretted notes will sound different than unfretted ones. The difference there is usually smaller than with bends and overbends, and they have the benefit of not needing to worry about pitch and intonation as do harmonica players and their created notes, but there is a difference and most guitarists learn fairly early when to fret and when to use the open string--and just as importantly when not to. That being said, the analogy is just that, and not exact-- bends and overblows are a physically different phenomena than natural notes whereas fretted strings are doing the same thing as unfretted, thus their tonal and phrasing differences are much, much smaller.



Paul M wrote:


"That being said, as harmonicas and technique improved through the years, the
notion of 'not exposing the overblows' changed along with it, and Howard, as
well as most guys I know that play with that approach, are no longer
concerned about 'exposing the overblow' . . . as most now get good control
and tone out of them . . ."


Probably my biggest complaint about Howard's playing is that he does expose them too much. Indeed, if there's any one thing it's that he tries too hard too often. When he relaxes and doesn't try to show off, he's great. When he forces things in terms of technique, he loses me entirely. That's in part because of the techniques he chooses to use when he's forcing things: tricky things to do, but which end up not sounding all that interesting. The same with many others. It's those who use created notes but place them in easy to hit and right for effect places who tend to have less problems (and note that these two are not always the same, but usually go hand in hand, and knowing which is which and when is when is the main issue).

Finally, just because I have to say it every time in pre-emption because someone will claim otherwise: I am not saying overblows are not valid. I am not saying that they are not an important technique. They are. The issues I bring up go for bends every bit as much as overblows. Both are wonderful things which help make the diatonic such an interesting instrument. Neither are the same as the natural notes.





 ()()    JR "Bulldogge" Ross
()  ()   & Snuffy, too:)
`----'












()() JR "Bulldogge" Ross () () & Snuffy, too:) `----'







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