[Harp-L] re: Tea...



jazmaan wrote:

"Jonathan wrote about "Take the 'A' Train" being difficult on XB-40, diatonic and chromatic. Well
maybe so, but its fairly easy in 1st position on an XB-Melody. I can upload a sample to Chris'
website if you like."


I've been playing it in first on a Paddy Richter XB-40, which should be just as easy (considering that the F# is no harder to get as a bend on an XB than the F, which you'd also need) and am convinced that you can't get it to sound like anything other than mud in the fast chromatic runs after the first bars--there are just too many bends next to each other at too high a speed. I'd love to hear your try, and will hope to be pleasantly surprised, but I've been practicing this for a while now as a bending exercise and it's just nasty.

"As for "Girl From Ipanema" Jonathan felt THAT was an easy tune - but he said he's never tried the
bridge."


Actually, I was wrong--I had tried the bridge. Just my mind had blocked it out because it was so horrible to do. That's an exaggeration, but I'd have to think long and hard about how to do this part--perhaps some harp-switching and alternate tunings might make it easier. On the same harp as the A sections it's not much fun--too many long held bent notes in too exposed a position, especially for the second of the three stanzas. The first is difficult, but not horrible, and the third quite easy, but the second is quite a challenge, if even doable without sounding like a drunken trombonist. The placement of the held bent notes is the problem--a bit too out in front for where I like my bends.

"Well that's a pretty important part of the song isn't it? ;> "

Yes, but I can't do it from memory and haven't really been practicing it, so when I try the piece I usually can only remember the A parts. If I were to practice it, I'd add the bridge in, of course--and do when I play it on chrom, actually as I can remember the fingering, as it were.

"Try the bridge and then
tell us if you still think its easy!"

On a chromatic it is. :) On a diatonic it is another story entirely (at least the first two stanzae--after that it's just fine). For different reasons than the "A" train, but still not very pleasant. Probably more doable, actually, but I'd want to find a more friendly way bends-wise. But, the bridge of "Take the "A" Train" is not particularly hard either--again interesting how some parts of a song can be easy and then the rest hard to transpose--indeed, the part which often seems hardest at first listen might be the easy one and vice versa.

"I'll try "Tea for Two" on diatonic in 12th position and also in 1st position with one overblow as
was suggested by list-members, and report back."


I think I'll try "Tea in the Sahara" myself (just read an Andy Summers interview:).

Slim wrote:

"Yes, you can certainly choose to look at it that way. Just goes to show how different folks react differently to music. I had the opposite impression of Toots' version -- it is the essence of musicality to me -- relaxed, hip, and beautiful, like most of his work."

To me Toots almost pulls it off because of his musical creativity, but the notes just aren't there the way they should be. It's not as if he's doing a real avant-garde or free interpretation of the piece or any other particularly radical reworking (Weather Report derived fusion did swing often enough) so that you could get away with imprecision. In a piece this well known, I find you either have to totally deconstruct it or hit the notes dead on. Anything in-between ends up sounding flubbed. I usually agree about your description of Toots (sometimes he's too relaxed if anything), but you can't out-hip missed or mis-hit notes.

Of course, to each their own. One thing is that I don't make any excuses just because it's a harmonica player, even Toots. If a guitarist or other player had the same problems, I'd feel the same way. For some pieces, you've just got to hit the notes. (not saying that you are making such excuses--just that's the way I listen--if you love the piece, fine by me, of course, just this is an example where I think it doesn't work, for the reasons I gave about the technical difficulties)

"To me, jazz is about interpretation, finding the sweet spot on your instrument. If you want the other kind of perfection, plug the notes into a sequencer and you're done. "

That seems like a silly oversimplification. Ellington for one, and Zawinul for another, wrote works that needed to be as precisely played as anything Beethoven or Bach wrote, and they crafted their bands around this. They allowed great freedom to interpret and solo within their compositions, but the main aspects need to be spot on. Actually, the same is true of Sun Ra--seemingly random oft-times, but trust me you know it if someone's off. And we're talking about Ellington and an extremely well-known piece here (well, Strayhorn, actually, but written for Ellington). It's not a case of the notes into a sequencer, but rather just playing the notes correctly to begin with--then take off. That's the traditional school of jazz, and Toots is very much a traditionalist in terms of his history, and even the approach in this song (the fusion rhythm wasn't really a radical rethinking in terms of how you play the piece). I'd probably give Ornette Coleman more leeway, but he'd probably be much more out to begin with and not really try to get it right. To me, Toots is trying and not succeeding--I really don't hear relaxation in his playing here, but a difficult struggle; it struck me when I first heard it, as it's very much not what he usually does.

I applaud him for trying, but that's not the same as saying it works.

"I agree (and who wouldn't?) that the harmonica is not as versatile as piano, sax, guitar, etc"

I wouldn't. The harmonica can be every bit as versatile as any instrument, but it depends on what you ask it to do. There are things a harmonica can do that any of those can't and vice-versa. I didn't bring this up as an example of versatility, but rather an example of what are the challenges unique to the harmonica for a specific song, which just happens to be easy on most other instruments (though I can't say about guitar offhand). I wouldn't expect a xylophone to bend notes, but that doesn't mean it's not a versatile instrument.

"But for me, it's simply a question of what sounds good in the moment and whether or not there's something unique and compelling the harmonica player can add in a particular context."

That makes sense, but this is an example where I think the harmonica hasn't added anything because he couldn't play the head well enough not to be distracting. When he gets to the soloing, Toots adds a ton (as always), but this particularly head and melody end up detracting from the song as a whole because he just can't get the notes right, IMO--and this is one where you just can't get "close enough", you've got to be dead on. Actually, I'd been thinking that perhaps the best way is to lay out and jump in for the solo--IIRC, that's what Armstrong does on "The Great Summit" (but I could be wrong--it's been a while since I heard that). As you said, it's what you can add, and if you can't add, then best to wait till you can.



 ()()    JR "Bulldogge" Ross
()  ()   & Snuffy, too:)
`----'







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