[Harp-L] criticism



All quotes are from Elizabeth


"For what it's worth...when someone posts a YouTube video here...and then
others join in to make comments (especially negative ones) about and or directly
TO the person playing IN those videos...it's completely illogical and
serves no real purpose if your intent is to "teach" the player just what he is
doing 'wrong' (in your professional estimation, that is)...since he isn't
reading your comments."



We have no way of knowing whether or not the person is on harp-l, so who's to say. In any event, it may be a simple misreading of the original post and the person thought that the poster was the player in question, and responded thusly. In any event, writing to a third- person who may or may not be reading has a long history and can be a very useful form of criticism in many ways, whether the person to whom the letter is directed reads it or not.



"The player in question isn't a member of Harp-L as far as anyone can
determine...he put his videos on YouTube, not harp-l, and there is a place ON
YouTube right there under each video for comment. While I still don't understand
(and no one so far has satisfactorily been able to explain to me) the
seeming necessity in the harmonica community of 'some' harmonica players (out of
all other musicians) feeling the need to criticize other harmonica players,
dissecting their videos negatively seems especially egregious (in my humble
opinion). Did this young guy ask for your criticisms here?"



Who cares if he asked for criticism. He put videos out there, or a record, or whatever. If someone makes something available to the larger public, they should expect criticism. And secondly, criticism is not simply a negative thing, there is positive and negative criticism (actually, to criticize is merely to comment on something, even "that was awesome" or "that sucked" is a form of criticism, not the most in-depth and interesting criticism, but criticism nonetheless). If he didn't want people to notice what he played, he shouldn't have posted to YouTube, and if he can't deal with people not fawning over his playing, then again he shouldn't have posted to YouTube. I find it ironic that while we live in an increasingly exhibitionist culture at the same time the idea of being able to say anything other than the most fawning of admiration for this exhibition is treated as somehow being cruel.


So, whether he asked for criticism or not is unimportant--he made himself a public figure, and when one does that one should expect criticism. If people don't want to be criticized in any form (and with the potential for things other than glowing praise, you know, with the potential for people to be honest in their reactions) then don't put yourself out there.


"As a matter of fact, one can not only post comments on YouTube, but even
post VIDEO comments ..i.e. your own videos...perhaps to counteract his...show
him just how it's done ..."



But, this was brought to the list's attention, so why not comment here? I don't want to get into a two-word, limited amount of writing allowed discussion on YouTube, so would rather comment on things in a forum which has the ability for more intelligent discourse. As for video, well, I don't feel a need to expose myself to the world through the camera on my computer. Funny that, but I seem to be one of the few people alive today who doesn't want their every move taped for all to see.



" (somewhat akin to: putting your money where your
mouth is?) ;) How about it? All those who make a negative comment...put your
OWN video up as proof whereof you speak? "



No, no a thousand times no. This is one of the most horrid ideas which comes up again and again when the issue of criticism is brought up. It is usually brought up by artists after they've gotten a negative review, but also by the fans of artists and the like. Guess what, it is illogical (unlike your use of the term above). Being a good critic and being a good artist are completely and totally unrelated. They are different skill sets. Indeed, most great artists I've met are horrible critics (of others, usually they can criticize their own work fairly well, even being overly harsh often enough). Someone doesn't have to be able to hum a melody in order to be a good critic of opera, they just need to have an ear for those who can, a knowledge of the field in question and the willingness to be honest when they criticize. Again, it's an unrelated skill set to being able to be great in the field in question.



"I would most definitely be
interested in seeing those! I'm sure I'd learn an awful lot from the comparisons of
"right way vs. wrong way", since I'm a newbie diatonic player and need to know
these important distinctions. "



Maybe instead of challenging people you would do better to read and understand what they write and when they do give examples of such see if you hear the same. Thus, I would argue that in this case Kiley Barter's example of how to "improve" the song by "Gobsmack"(sp) is a perfect of example of how not to improve a song, but rather how to play hell-bent without any relationship to what the song is trying to say. It's just masturbating notes out without a real point to them. The original short harmonica introduction works much better in that it sets things up with a distinct feel and then let's the song take over rather than dominates the song for the sake of the soloist. If you want to explore how to play harmonica as a central piece of a song but without dominating it and killing the musical value of the song, check out Jelly Roll Johnson's CD. It's country, not rock, but the ideas of how to play at the highest level without just playing for the sake of playing notes is exemplified perfectly here. For a rock example, I would suggest that Popper himself rarely plays over a song in the way Barter is showing.



"Posting your dissection of his playing here strikes me as a bit unfair,
since it smacks somewhat of gossiping behind someone's back...while the gossipee
isn't aware he/she is being talked about so negatively. "



Again, if you don't want to be talked about, on any forum, don't post a video to an open-access source. It really is that simple.



"Whereas putting your
comments right there on his site will at the very least allow him a counter
response and serve to carry the courage of your convictions, n'est- ce-pas?"



No. I don't care if he reads this or not. I'm not writing for him, I'm writing for the members of this list and to discuss things here. Criticism isn't about whether someone can "defend" themselves, it's about being honest in what the critic writes. If someone doesn't want to be exposed to criticism, whether on their own website or elsewhere, then they shouldn't put something out there to be criticized. An exhibitionist can't complain that the people watching them are commenting on what they see.



"P.S. His specifically described "jazz" version of Stairway to Heaven (on
diatonic, no less)..seemed quite different and unusual enough to give a
listen..and actually triggered an interest in me to try it on Chromatic...but in no
way made me feel the song should be "left alone". Why? Who decides when and
for how long a song should or should not be played? NOW we have "Rock song
police"? Geez."



The song is not a favorite of mine--indeed, I always thought it was a hackneyed cheese-ball of a song. Emotive without emotion. That said, his version reminded me more of Bill Murray's send-up of bad lounge-jazz acts. It really was rather funny, and not in a good way. I tend to think the more you take a very easily recognized pop melody like that and jazzify it the more likely you're going to get that bad-lounge feel than anything else in the first place. It just strikes the muzak chords pretty strongly, especially when the original is so overblown to begin with. And I'm not in the least bit sorry if that's not the nicest thing to say, because it is honest and I'm not being meanspirited while doing it--I'm neither saying anything personal about him nor even saying he should stop posting these things or stop playing what he wants to play. Just giving my reaction to it.


Funny, here I was thinking discussion forums were places to discuss things, and a harmonica discussion group here to discuss harmonica related things. Such as videos on YouTube and what our reactions to them are.



 ()()    JR "Bulldogge" Ross
()  ()   & Snuffy, too:)
`----'







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