Re: [Harp-L] Re: was experiment, now just combs

["Roscoe Catania" <rjcataniajr@xxxxxxxxx>]

*OK Dave, your turn...

*
On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 5:23 PM, Jonathan Ross <jross38@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> Dave Payne writes:
>
> "It is false because your test at SPAH, or wherever it was, refuted this
> for all time? "
>
> It is false because all tests so far tried (which are the two at SPAH) have
> refuted the idea that comb material effects the tone of the harmonica in an
> audible way and because there are no sound acoustical theories as to why
> comb material would effect the tone.  If someone wants to claim that comb
> material has an effect, I suggest undertaking a series of controlled tests
> which could try and measure this.  Be as open as Vern was in showing
> methodology and such before and after the test and if the results come out
> that they can measure a difference that is not explained by random chance,
> then the current default theory can begin to change from comb materials do
> not make a difference to comb materials may make a difference (then repeat
> the tests and conduct more to show that it wasn't an
> aberration--repeatability being a key element of scientific testing).
>
> In short, yes, that's why it is false.
>
> "The side vent discussion went the same way as wood, the accepted theory
> among the scientific is that they can not make any difference. "
>
> It was?  I never saw that.  I saw some people thinking that cover material
> doesn't make a difference, some arguing cover shape makes a difference and
> others disagreeing.
>
> "On my test, the consenus was that I would have had to have it machine
> blown or something to make a valid test. OK, maybe, whatever. "
>
> The very fact that you are so dismissive to valid criticisms ("whatever")
> shows that you don't understand what is needed to actually conduct a test.
>  I don't think the clips you showed came close to anything that might be
> defined as a test and really cannot be compared to the massive amount of
> effort Vern and John Thaden put into conducting their tests, as imperfect as
> they still were.  The key to both SPAH tests was the attempt to isolate
> effects being tested and to create a blind format for the testing.  This was
> completely absent from your side-vent demonstration.
>
> In this thread, the claim was that the comb sounds more "natural".  Well,
> it begs several questions, amongst them more natural than what?  Brass?
>  Aluminum?  Bone?  Ivory?  Plastic?  Walnut shells?  Glass?  And what is a
> "natural" sound?  Do certain woods have a more "natural" sound than others?
>  Is it a specific set of harmonics?  Is it even as vague as "warm"?  This
> was a selling point of the product, and it seems logical to at least point
> out that it may not be a valid one.  Indeed, that basic question was at the
> heart of fjm's post:
>
> "So the Corian tm combs, would they be a natural or an unnatural tone?"
>
>
> Smokey Joe writes:
> "There is nothing wrong with using the term "natural tone". Natural has a
> relationship to nature and wood comes from nature.
>
>
>
> Everything comes from nature.  Plastics are made from petroleum, which is
> created by the decay of organic material under heavy pressure in the crust
> of the Earth.  Last I checked wood didn't grow into harmonica combs on
> trees, it had to be manufactured and manipulated to become a comb.  The same
> for metal, stone and plastic.  The only question is the degree of
> manipulation needed.
>
> So, yes, there may be nothing wrong with using the term "natural tone", but
> it's meaningless.  It's even less meaningful than saying, "it gives the harp
> a better tone"--better than what?  And in this case in particular, it begs
> the question of what is being sold and why--is this using false premises to
> sell a product?  And if so, shouldn't that be pointed out to potential
> customers and possibly even the seller themselves?  These may be excellent
> combs, but that is a separate question from how they are marketed.  I fail
> to see how both are not valid areas of interest.
>
>
>
>
>  ()()    JR "Bulldogge" Ross
> ()  ()
> `----'
>
>
>
>
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