RE: [Harp-L] Re: Harmonica Mexican

"Rick Dempster" <rick.dempster@xxxxxxxxxxx> · Tue, 01 Jul 2008 10:38:38 +1000

Victorio,
              Thank you very much for that sound file. That is exactly
what I meant. I would be most interested to hear anything else you have,
and I hope you keep harp-l updated with further results of your
research.
Best wishes,
Rick Dempster,
Melbourne,
Australia

>>> victorio montes silva <silvaharp@xxxxxxxxxxx> 28/06/2008 1:56 >>>

Hi

for some reason not received these messages before. the comments are
very interesting.

harmonica of tremolo was done until about 2 or 3 decades, the most used
by people of Mexican countryside, even used, but fewer and fewer,
several friends and I have concluded that in this, we have a tradition,
one aspect even national identity.

I warmly rick Dempster very interested in these old recordings where
they can hear these memorable models harmonica.I have several recordings
which will make you reach warmly. by the time I leave the following link
to listen to a piece that is called "La Gallinita" interpreted by
Francisco GarcÃa, mouth organ; Vicente GarcÃa HernÃndez, requinto
(tambor chico); Francisco JimÃnez HernÃndez, primera (tambor mediano) y
Rosendo Ortiz Morales, bajo (tambor grande). Provenance: TamultÃ de la
Sabana, municipio del Centro, Tabasco.

http://www.zshare.net/audio/14300564f10869c0/ 

We discovered that harmonica leads in Mexico over 100 years, 150 years
or a bit more if one takes into account the instruments pre-harmonic.
Publications in the late nineteenth century are illustrations this
instrument in our country.

Work is still much to be done, whenever we find new and surprising
things, and we feel that we should give us a hurry, since each each
passing year is more difficult to find people who has been connected to
our past that, since the younger generation seems not Mexican this step,
you have forgotten the tormented revolutionary Mexican playing his
harmonica

Atte.
Victorio Montes Silva
04455 1681-5162

> Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 16:43:09 +0100
> From: rickepping@xxxxxxxxx 
> To: rick.dempster@xxxxxxxxxxx 
> Subject: Re: [Harp-L] Re: Harmonica Mexican
> CC: harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx 
>
> Hi Rick,
>
> Of course the harmonica survived and thrived in the USA, which
really
> adopted it as its own. But even in the USA, I would dare say that
some of
> the existing diatonic accordion genres developed out of the
harmonica. One
> interesting harmonica style that survived the introduction of the
accordion
> is that of the Amish, where the harmonica - to my knowledge
exclusively the
> Auto Valve - is often the only musical instrument permitted to be
played.
> The USA sells the vast majority of Hohner's Auto Valves and, based
on
> information from wholesale distributors, well over half of these are
sold
> into the Amish community.
>
> At its peak, the harmonica was sold all over the world. I've seen
catalogs
> from the 1920s with sections of models produced exclusively for
South
> Africa, South America, India, Australia, China, Japan, Great Britain
and
> Ireland, and most Western European countries. I've also heard some
nice
> recordings of Zulu harmonica playing; here's a cool photo of a Zulu
band
> that includes a harmonica:
http://www.mustrad.org.uk/graphics/zulus.jpg 
>
> The late Manfred Haug, former export manager for Hohner, told me of a
Hohner
> rep who, while visiting an African tribe, witnessed preparations for
a rite
> of passage, where the young, soon-to-be men were sent into the bush
with
> nothing but spear and loincloth. He remarked that it must be lonely
for the
> boys out there, and wouldn't it be a good idea to give them a
harmonica as
> well, to help them pass the time? So they did! Models were produced
for
> Africa with long and short chains, to be worn, respectively, around
the neck
> and on the ear, as the tribal people had no pockets.
>
> The dearth of early, ethnic harmonica recordings might be due to the
> harmonica passing out of favor before the widespread introduction of
> recording into these regions, or maybe harmonicas were played mostly
by
> non-professionals. Or maybe some of those doing the recording didn't
> consider the harmonica a serious musical instrument. I've heard that
the
> harmonica got its start in Hollywood during a musician's strike;
harmonica
> players were not considered "real" musicians and were not permitted
in the
> Musician's Union, so they could be hired to work in the movies when
no other
> musician could.
>
> Best regards,
> Rick
>
> On Sun, Jun 22, 2008 at 2:57 PM, Rick Dempster 
> wrote:
>
>> Thanks for that informative response, Rick.
>> Yet the
>> harmonica survived and developed as a 'folk' instrument in the USA,
and in
>> white rural music (read 'country' if you want) it hung in there,
not
>> necessarily replaced by the accordion, which never became a defining
sound
>> in that area, but stayed alive in the form of the 'Lost John'
players, 'fox
>> chasers' etc. (eg Henry Whitter, Kyle Whooten, Wayne Raney, Lonnie
Glosson,
>> Palmer McAbee) The latter stuff is out of the black tradition of
course
>> (Sonny Terry being a prime example of early black tradition) and so
I
>> conclude that the technique of pitch-bending, not possible on the
accordion,
>> was the reason the instrument prospered.
>> With the
>> exception of this tradition, and some early recording artists like
Humphrey
>> Bate and Herman Crook, playing largely non-bent first position
fiddle tunes,
>> the harmonica didn't get much of a look in with 'country' till
Charlie McCoy
>> upped it's profile from the 'sixties onward.
>> In the hands
>> of the bluesman it was the ideal 'poor man's horn', the pitch
changes
>> distinguishing it from the accordion while it retained
possibillities for
>> simple but rhythmic chording that obviously made the former
instrument so
>> useful for accompanying dancers.
>> But what
>> bothers me is that there is very little recorded harmonica music
from places
>> where you would think it would catch on. Where are the examples of
>> recordings from African countries? Just how widely was the
harmonica
>> marketed? Did it not sell well in some places? Very little from
Carribbean
>> cultures too, where you might expect to find it.
>>
>> In South
>> Africa, it was the penny-whistle that was the 'poor man's horn', not
the
>> harmonica (but not accordion either, as far as I can hear)
>> In the
>> southern USA, the button accordion is found in Tex-Mex and Cajun,
both
>> cultures having a connections with 'European' cultures (which always
seem
>> attracted to that instrument) via French, Spanish, German or Czech
>> connections.
>> Maybe it has
>> something to do with inherited musical tastes. I also suspect that
in a lot
>> of places, the harp was strictly for 'domestic entertainment', and
just
>> didn't cut it with the commercial recording interests.
>> The accordion
>> never really became a part of traditional white rural music in the
southern
>> US (Cajun, Tex-Mex etc aside) where the fiddle, banjo and (later)
guitar
>> were king. I know there was some use of PIANO accordion (as opposed
to
>> diatonic/button accordion)particularly in 'western' music (as
opposed to
>> 'country - or 'eastern') like Pee Wee King's band, and, yes , I
know, Bill
>> Monroe gave it a whirl for a short while.
>> The 'pop'
>> world was a holdout for harmonica of course, though pretty much
dominated by
>> the more sophisticated chromatic players, and particularly by the
novelty
>> all harmonica trios etc.
>> Sorry to
>> rave on here, but I listen to a lot of old ethnic music, and
continue to
>> wonder about the lack of harmonica (and particularly diatonic
harmonica) in
>> recordings from places other than the USA, UK, (Canada too, I know
now
>> thanks to info on harp-l) and my own country, Australia, where it
was
>> extremely popular, though always played in the old 'vamping' style
you speak
>> of ( and no bent notes!)
>> A research
>> project for someone doing their Phd, maybe.
>> Cheers,
>> Rick Dempster
>>
>>>>> "Rick Epping"  21/06/08 6:53 PM>>>
>> The harmonica in Mexico suffered the same fate as that in many
countries
>> around the world with the introduction of the diatonic accordion.
Some
>> years ago I met a couple of Mexican tremolo players at the
Smithsonian
>> Folklife Festival, the elder of which told me how the harmonica was
taken
>> over by the accordion in the early 20th century; a story similar to
ones
>> I've heard here in Ireland where, like in Mexico, traditional
harmonica
>> players are today few and far between. The two instruments are
similar in
>> tonality and in the manner in which they're played, but the
accordion is
>> much louder, making it more suitable for playing for dances, and
thus
>> making
>> it a more financially attractive instrument for musicians in the
>> pre-amplification era.
>>
>> Last year at the Willie Clancy Week, Mick Kinsella and I gave a
lecture on
>> the history of the harmonica in Ireland, in preparation for which I
>> contacted the curator of the German Harmonica Museum, who confirmed
my
>> theory that this phenomenon was worldwide. The diatonic button
accordion
>> really started taking off in the 1920s, when worldwide harmonica
sales were
>> at their peak. During the 'teens and 20s, German harmonica exports
to
>> Great
>> Britain (including Ireland) were over 1.3 million per year, Russia
1.1
>> million per year, Argentina 800,000 per year, and Brazil 700,000 per
year.
>> In 1913, 3.4 million were exported to the USA, with over 7 million
in 1929.
>> These sales started dropping off as accordion sales rose.
>>
>> One can, however, look to the playing style in early diatonic
accordion
>> recordings to get a notion as to the playing style of the
pre-accordion
>> harmonica, as many of these early accordion players were likely to
have
>> started out as harmonica players. The tongue-block vamping technique
used
>> on the various diatonic harmonica models is very similar to the left
hand
>> technique of the diatonic accordion.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Rick
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Message: 5
>>> Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 15:23:43 +1000
>>> From: "Rick Dempster" 
>>> Subject: Re: [Harp-L] Harmonica Mexican
>>> To: "harp-l" , "victorio montes silva"
>>> 
>>> Message-ID: 
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>>>
>>> Victorio;
>>> Enjoyed looking at the pictures of these interesting old
>> harps.
>>> What I'd be even more interested in would be archival recordings of
these
>>> instruments being played.
>>> As you say, the tremolo harp is the harmonica " most
>>> representative in the past " of Mexican harmonica playing.
>>> I have quite a few recordings of Mexican music, and like it
>>> very much, but there is no harmonica on any of it.
>>> I'm not interested in present day people playing blues, jazz
>>> etc etc; only in traditional Mexican music, and the older the
better.
>>> Do you have any suggestions, sound files etc. you could send
>>> me?
>>> Regards,
>>> Rick Dempster,
>>> Melbourne,
>>> Australia
>>>
>>>>>> victorio montes silva  18/06/2008 3:30>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hello everyone
>>>
>>>
>>> Today I share with you the blogspot a good friend of mine.
>>>
>>> http://armonicademexico.blogspot.com/ 
>>>
>>>
>>> Together we are rescuing the tradition of harmonica tremolo in
Mexico
>>>
>>> They may see photographs of the harmonic most representative in the
past
>>> Mexican.
>>>
>>> Besides adding new information on an ongoing basis.
>>>
>>>
>>> To enjoy it and hope your comments.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Atte.
>>> Victorio Montes Silva
>>> 04455 1681-5162
>>>
>>>
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