Re: [Harp-L] tune the higher notes sharper or lower?

[Filip Jers <filip.jers@xxxxxxxxx>]

interesting subject. 

i stretch tune on my harmonicas, otherwise i think its sound to flat. but i only stretch the very last octave starting from around high D (hole 8 diatonic C) then up the C hole 10. i also do this on chromatics. 
if i base my harmonica around 442, the last high C might end on 445.. 
i play a lot with a classical trained violinst, in unison and harmony and he told me that those last notes of my harmonicas was way to low. we then compared and play with a grand piano, and 
noticed that i had to tune up, but biggest difference was from high G and up. below that it was ok to tune equal to the other octaves. and that was one grand piano, there are many in the world.. 

if you check chromatic button accordions, in the melody side, they are often a bit stretch tuned, in the very last octave. 

i think everyone ears and brains are very different so its very hard to say which way is best to tune. 

if it works in the musical situation you are in, then its ok!


4 jul 2011 kl. 14.58 skrev The Iceman:

> If you don't push the higher octaves on a piano a bit sharp (stretching), the human ear tends to "hear" these as being on the flat side, even though, in a textbook sense, they are tuned at proper pitch. Stretching the tuning as you go up into the higher range compensates.
> 
> 
> The stiffness in the strings as described by Richard effects the partials of the string. We hear the fundamental tone mixed with the upper harmonics as a single note. There is a mathematical relationship between the two that gives the best note to our ears - based on a formula that looks good in the lab but frequently does not exist in reality. The partials move away from this formula in piano strings because stiffness of the string will shorten the vibrating length. This small change is not so apparent in the fundamental and lowest partials, as it is a small percentage change in relationship to the whole. As higher partials are formed, the vibrating string length becomes much shorter, so a small difference becomes a larger % of the overall length, hence moving the actual breakdown in numbers for this relationship away from the smooth and acceptable numbers in the formula. 
> 
> 
> A tuner's talent lies in recognizing all of this and compensating with constant compromises in order to create the "least of all evils" final product.
> 
> 
> In harmonicas, I do not stretch the tuning going up. I prefer that the octaves sound pure and beat less - not the best arrangement for that dirty blues sound, but more suited to my sensibilities.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Richard Hunter <turtlehill@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: harp-l <harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Mon, Jul 4, 2011 4:27 am
> Subject: Re: [Harp-L] tune the higher notes sharper or lower?
> 
> 
> The Iceman wrote:
> <human ear can not determine a difference in tones until they are at least 3 
> cents apart. this is based on info <I learned as a piano tuner and based on 
> laboratory type testing.
> 
> I used to tune pianos for a living.  The reason some piano tuners use a 
> "stretch" tuning (meaning a tuning with the upper octaves tuned slightly above 
> pitch) is that piano strings exhibit a phenomenon known as "inharmonicity," in 
> which the stiffness of the string inhibits vibration of the normal harmonic 
> nodes on the string, making it sound out of tune.  This effect is pronounced on 
> the highest notes on the keyboard, where the strings are very short and under a 
> lot of stress.  (It's also an issue on bass strings, especially when the piano 
> is small, meaning that the bass strings are relatively short.)
> 
> Harmonicas are not subject to this phenomenon, because harmonica aren't stringed 
> instruments.  So I don't see a lot of value in tuning the upper register notes 
> sharp. 
> 
> As per previous comment, it might be useful to tune lower notes on the harmonica 
> up to account for the flattening in pitch that occurs when those notes are 
> played hard.  But I wonder what the chords will sound like afterwards.
> 
> Regards, RIchard Hunter
> 
> 
> 
> 
> author, "Jazz Harp" 
> latest mp3s and harmonica blog at http://hunterharp.com
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> 
> 

Filip Jers


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